Cass Aarssen: Decluttering Your Home Is About Self-Empowerment

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Being Home With Hunker is a podcast where each week we chat with designers, artists, and creatives in the spaces that express and shape their identities: their homes.

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About the Episode

"If you're listening to this and you have no idea where to start, you're like 'I want focus somewhere,' start in the bedroom. Specifically, start in your closet because this is the most empowering thing you can do and it'll have the biggest impact on your mindset and your self-respect and your self-love." — Cass Aarssen

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On the Being Home With Hunker podcast we have organizing expert Cass Aarssen.

Cass is the creator of the home organizing business Clutterbug, she's the author of four best-selling organizing books, she's the host of the Clutterbug podcast, ‌and‌ host of HGTV's "Hot Mess House."

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Suffice to say, Cass knows all about organizing. (You would ‌never‌ believe that she's a "recovering super slob." Her words, not mine!)

In this podcast conversation, Cass talks about how excess physical belongings drain us and add to our overwhelm – emotionally, physically, and spiritually. And we may not fully understand ‌how‌ much they drain us until we start decluttering.

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She shares that when we spend our days filling our home with stuff — with empty promises — we don't have the energy to make room to find our purpose and passions when every moment is filled with tasks and tidying up. She says that we're adding hours to our days and weeks managing all our excess stuff in our homes.

As Cass shares, the first step to getting organized is letting go. She's seen the life transformations that come when we are, as she says, brave enough to let go of physical things.

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However, we need to build our decluttering muscle — she feels it's a life skill we all need to know. It's all about consistency.

You'll love her helpful tips on how to declutter, including why she keeps bins at the bottom of closets, which space has the biggest impact on your mindset when you keep clean and clutter-free, and you'll want to hear her process on how she personally declutters.

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Click here to listen to our conversation on Being Home With Hunker or read the full transcript below.

Learn More About Cass Aarssen

To learn more about Cass, visit her website Clutterbug.me where you can discover her courses, books, podcast, printables, and more. While you're there, be sure to take her Clutterbug Quiz to discover your organizing style. Which one are you?

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Read the Full Transcript

Cass:

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If you're listening to this and you have no idea where to start, you're like, "I want to focus somewhere." Start in your closet, because this is the most empowering thing that you can do, and it will have the biggest shift on your mindset and your self-respect and your self-love.

Laurie Gunning Grossman:

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I'm so excited to talk with you, Cass, because thinking about organizing and thinking about decluttering and on top of this, thinking about the world and how things just feel very chaotic. We're living in a very heightened chaotic time right now, and that one way I think for us to get rebalanced is to have spaces, our personal spaces, our homes feel like a place where we can take a deep breath and we can relax and feel good. And I do think that the organizing and the decluttering aspect of that is so important. Do you feel like your work or what people are reaching out to you, has it become even more heightened as of these past few years just because of the way the world is?

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Cass Aarssen:

Yeah, absolutely. I definitely see trends. And when COVID started, everyone was spending more time than ever at home, surrounded by our stuff and it became even more apparent how much effort it is to maintain our inventory, where every day we're just cleaning things, we're stuff shuffling things around, we're looking for things that are lost and we're already so stressed and now our stuff is adding to that feeling of overwhelm. And so I saw a ton of people just say, "Enough is enough. I want this space to be my retreat and how do I get there?" And I think there's a really big misconception when it comes to our home that, "If only I could get organized then everything would be easier. I'd be able to have a home for everything. My house would stay tidier." But the truth is, the first step of getting organized is letting go of a lot.

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Laurie:

Yes.

Cass:

And that's the tough part, but that's also step one. This is something I would shout from the rooftops because in my own experience, I lived in a home where I had paths at one point from my bed to the sofa to the fridge. So I know what it feels like, the embarrassment, the overwhelm. But even if you're not to that level, excess stuff drains us emotionally, physically, spiritually. And I know the absolute life transformations that come when we're brave enough to let go.

Laurie:

Yeah. This is one of the things that I love that you talk about because it's not just about the how. It's not the, "Here's how you declutter. Here are containers you can use." You talk about the why, which I love, and just what you brought up there, the clutter and our stuff is weighing us down and holding us back from perhaps living out our passions or our dreams. And it's something that you talked about in a recent episode on your podcast. It was about the suburban sadness that you brought up. Can you talk a little bit about this right here?

Cass:

Yeah. I mean, suburban sadness is this term that... I mean, I don't know where it came from, but it's really to describe, not necessarily depression, but this feeling of discontentment with our lives. And you don't have to live in the suburbs to feel this, but it comes from a place like when we're younger, we're looking forward to graduating or we're looking forward to finding our first love and getting married and having children and we buy our first home, maybe we had our first car. There's all these big exciting moments and firsts and things to look forward to. And then we start getting to our mid-thirties, our forties, and what is next?

And we're spending our days shopping, filling our time, filling our home with these empty promises that the stores are giving us and that social media is giving us. But stuff isn't making us happy, so we're feeling this sense of emptiness. And so many people that I've talked to, I have clients and followers and we've chatted about this and I feel like it's a very common thing, this feeling of there has to be more out of life, but I don't feel like I have the time and energy to find what that more is.

Laurie:

Right. And is it because we're just shuffling all the stuff around our house, we're organizing, we're spending our days just like maintaining?

Cass:

Yeah. How could we possibly make room to find our true passions or these real purposes in our lives when every moment of our day seems like it's filled with going to work, coming home, doing the dishes, doing the laundry, looking for our stuff, tidying up, picking up the papers, shuffling, heading to the grocery store? And a lot of these things we do have to do, but we are adding literal hours to our days and weeks managing stuff that we don't need to manage. Having this excess stuff that we have to tidy before we can clean. We need to move things around, right?

Laurie:

Yeah.

Cass:

We need to look for things. It takes us forever to put things away because every space is so full that we have to shove and there's disorganization and you wouldn't think that this is adding up to a lot of time, but it is.

Laurie:

Yes.

Cass:

It's stealing so much of your time. And even more than that, it's leading to a mental burnout that you might not even be aware that you're having. Your physical belongings can drain you and stress you out and just give you... Yeah, overwhelm your life in a way that you won't understand until you start having less, until you start decluttering.

Laurie:

Right. So how do you coach people to let go of things when it's challenging for us? When we look around, we're like, "Well, that reminds me of something." Or, "I don't know, I might need this someday." And there is an emotional attachment. Or maybe it's not even an emotional attachment to the item, it's just the emotional feeling of letting go of something which feels scary or it's the what ifs. How do you coach people to let go?

Cass:

Well, everybody has a different reason of why it's scary for them, but it all comes down to the same thing, which is anxiety. I think human nature is to acquire, to accumulate. It feels safe to have things just in case. And so it feels very wrong to let go of things that you've spent money on or been given or they have sentimental attachment. It feels fundamentally wrong when you've never done it before or you haven't done it a lot. I call this building your decluttering muscle. Why don't we teach this in school? Why don't we learn that decluttering is part of just adulting? It's a life skill we need to know. And so we need to kind of build that muscle by starting small. We don't start with things that are emotionally charged. We start with trash, expired medication, expired food. I promise you, look in your bedside table, you have wrappers and old receipts.

We start with things like that because it gives us this mindset shift of, "Oh, that was easier than I thought." And, "Ooh, I feel proud of myself." And, "Oh look, I'm creating so much space. And then we rinse and repeat. And every time we do, we dig a little bit deeper and it makes us feel better. And it kind of flips our mindset from I'm letting go, which feels like taking from you to, I'm giving myself space, I'm giving myself peace of mind. I'm doing this because I deserve this.

Laurie:

Yes. God, you make it sound so freeing. It sounds so lovely and also doable if we just take just small steps, maybe it's daily. Is that something you recommend? Do you say to people, hey, once you get to a certain spot with your organization and decluttering, are you saying really only spend X amount of time a day or X amount of time a week is all you really need once you kind of get to a good spot?

Cass:

Absolutely, yeah.

Laurie:

Yeah. What's that time?

Cass:

I think honestly, 15 minutes a day is the secret to success. It's all about consistency. It doesn't have to be strict or scheduled. I am so not the person who, "Don't put me in a box, man. Don't make me follow rules." But what we can do is realize, oh, when I'm brewing my coffee, maybe I can just straighten something up in the kitchen while the pot brews or while we're sitting and relaxing, there's way that I could just grab a piece of paper and plan my day tomorrow. How are little things that we can do to get and stay organized? But a big part of that is making letting go part of your process.

So for me, I do four big declutters a year, and it's always, the holidays is one. So before the holidays, as I'm taking out my decorations and I'm doing all of this, I think, "What are some gifts that I would like to receive and what can I let go to make room for the new things coming in?" So children's toys, bathroom products like lotions and potions, clothing, old pajamas. I'm being really mindful to have room, so I'm doing this big declutter before the holidays. So I also know what to tell grandparents and aunts and uncles what my kids need and I'm not overwhelmed when new things come in.

So four times a year I do fill my van. It's kind of crazy pants. I do a really, really big declutter. It's just part of my routine, but it feels so good. I can't tell you how good this feels to get stuff out because you see immediate results. And this is the one thing I think a lot of people don't realize is how much you actually have to let go of to see the results that I'm talking about. And it's much more than you think.

Laurie:

Ooh, yeah, yeah. It's so interesting as you're saying this, because there's a part of me that's like, "Wow, you know, four times a year, how much stuff do we have?" And then I kind of do a mental picture of the cabinets in my house or the little spaces where things are tucked away and there is a lot of stuff.

Cass:

I always think that too. I'm like, "I'm not going to find anything." It's not like I have a shopping problem. I don't shop a lot, but we're constantly bringing things into our home. There is a steady stream, and you might not realize it, but maybe you picked up a new umbrella while you were out, or some new mixing bowls and a sweater a few months later and then your children got new clothes because they're outgrowing their old ones and they have old winter boots that no longer fit. If we're not getting things out at the same rate as we're bringing things, a year, two years, three years, our home can immediately be so much more work than it needs to be.

Laurie:

Oh, boy, yes. I also like the idea of being mindful as we're bringing something in to let something go. That seems like perhaps a pattern people could get into. That's easy enough to remember I think. Or you put it in the pile that you're going to let go of four times a year when you do some big clean out.

Cass:

Yeah. We have decluttering bins in the bottom of everyone's closet in my home, which is really, really handy. So if you're coming across a shirt and you're like, "Actually, I just don't love this." You know what our tendency is to do, it's either hang it back up or throw it in the dirty laundry. Why do we do this? We're like, "I actually don't like this shirt. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to throw it in the wash and wash it again and put it away and play this game again next week." That's bonkers.

So a really good place to start is in your closet. And then after you've done your closet declutter, just have a little old basket at the bottom of your closet that's dedicated for donations. And anytime you come across something, it's convenient because it's right there. You just toss it in.

And I'm a really big fan of starting, if you really want to make a difference in your life, of starting in your bedroom. I think this is the most neglected room in the home and it's the space that's yours, for you. Because at the end of the day, getting your home decluttered and organized isn't about guests seeing your mess. It isn't about picking up after your kids or spouse. It's about saying, "I deserve a home that feels effortless to maintain. I deserve to have a closet where everything inside fits me and looks good on me. I deserve to have a kitchen that doesn't feel like stressful when I want to cook. I deserve to have a house that stays tidy."

Laurie:

Yeah. Oh, I love this. Cass, when you talk about this stuff, it's so beautiful because it is that inspiring feeling behind it, which I love. And I feel like it makes it so much more palatable to pick up after ourselves or to say, "I am going to spend a Saturday or whatever decluttering." Because as you say, I deserve to have a space where we can live our highest visions of ourselves, our best lives. Because if we can't do it at home, where can we do it?

Cass:

Yeah.

Laurie:

Yeah.

Cass:

I mean, letting go is a big part of that. And sometimes we allow our stuff to bully us. Really, we do. Like we're people pleasing that ugly sweater you got from your mother-in-law. So you're keeping it in your closet because you don't want to offend her. Or, "Ooh, I spent $40 on that from Walmart. I don't like it, but I feel bad letting it go." So we're letting our stuff now walk all over us, really. We're not putting boundaries. We're not telling ourselves that we don't respect ourselves enough to say, "This is my home and I don't want this in there." And that's okay. It's okay. I'm putting myself first. And that's really what is happening when you're letting go, when you're decluttering, you're standing up for yourself. It's empowering.

But you have to make that mindset shift and realize, I'm not doing this because I have to. I'm not picking up after my family. I'm not decluttering because... It isn't this negative thing. We have to realize that this is about self-respect, self-empowerment and we deserve this. I know I keep saying this. But for me, that was the shift I had to make because as a wife and a mother, I spent so many years being really resentful, resentful that no one was helping, resentful of the mess. And I nagged and I cried and I begged and I screamed. And I got to a point where I either give in and just live angrily in a really messy house or I shift my mindset because I can't control anything else.

Laurie:

That is so good. You have the quiz on what's your organizational style and I love it because it's kind of like your love language. Like, what's your love language? How do you communicate? And this one is, how do you organize? Which is really, really cool. I took it. I'm a ladybug.

Cass:

Same.

Laurie:

Oh, good. And it's very interesting to take the quiz and then to read, this is how you prefer to have things and it's helpful. I love that you came up with that.

Cass:

I came out of this out necessity. So when I first got myself organized, I realized I'm not a detailed person. My husband is really detailed and he loves categories. When he pays a bill, he files it into credit card or electrical or gas and I would just shove it in a drawer. I'm just like, "I'll hide it away. It's done." I didn't really think further than that. It's not that I couldn't set up these systems, it's that I couldn't maintain them on a daily basis. I'm not going to come home from the grocery store and take all my food out of the packages and decant them. I'm going to just toss it in the cabinet. And that's okay.

And so when I started helping clients, I thought... Well, first I helped friends and family with either this really detailed organization or a more laid back organization. And I thought I was a genius and that there was two organizing styles. And so my catchphrase was, "If it doesn't stay organized in 30 days, call me and I'll come back and I'll organize it for free."

Laurie:

Oh, wow.

Cass:

That was terrible.

Laurie:

Yeah.

Cass:

That was terrible. That was a terrible idea because people called me and I had to go back and organize. And what I realized was, okay, there isn't just two organizing styles, there's four. And when I can identify somebody's natural style before going into their home, I can design a system that stays organized so I don't have to go back and do it again for free. So it really came from trial and error. And I'm just so lucky to have stumbled upon it because now I'm able to help millions of people all over the world identify their organizing style so they're not wasting time and money buying bins and baskets that are never going to work for them long term.

Laurie:

Yeah, I love that idea. And I was talking to someone, she has an organizing company and for her, there's great joy in decanting her food every time she brings it home. You've just brought that up. And I was like, "How do you this? Like, when do you do this?" And she just does it once a week and she loves it. That brings her so much joy. And I like the idea of that, but that wouldn't bring me joy. It would bring me stress because I'd be thinking, "Now, I got to decant it. What do you do? Do you take out the old part and put it in a bowl while you put the... " You know?

Cass:

Yeah. Because you're a ladybug. Us ladybugs don't do that. Because you know what? Because it's like our brain has already moved on. We've grocery shopped. That was the goal. We need to put it away fast. We need to put things away fast. But the beautiful thing is everybody is different. And so your friend is obviously, I call them little bug names, she's a cricket or a bee. And they love taking the time to put their belongings away in a really detailed way, but know the difference and know the difference between real life you and fantasy you, which obviously you have. And I embrace that. I don't fold my clothes. If no one's going to see me in it, I just toss it in a drawer. And I'm an organizing expert. I have a show on HGTV and I don't decant my food. But that's the whole point. It's not about what it looks like. It's about how it functions and are we able to maintain a system that feels effortless for us so our house doesn't feel like extra work?

Laurie:

Yeah. So what do you do though when there are several people living in a house and there are several different organizing styles?

Cass:

Yeah. This is so fascinating. I think this again is why it's so important to know your style and know your family style because we do have to compromise. And if it's a space that you are in charge of managing, then you design a system for you. But if it's a shared space, like a pantry where everybody's grabbing food or an entranceway where everyone's coming in and out and you have coats and shoes, you always default to the simple organizing style, which means the non-detailed and the visual.

And so in this case, I call that the butterfly style, which means we have hooks instead of hangers for our coats, we have clear containers or wire containers. So we see our things, we have our keys on a hook instead of tucking them into a drawer. And we let go of the really overly complicated details, like decanting our cookies and putting them in beautiful little containers. But again, only if it's a shared space because it's way easier for a detailed person to let go a little bit and toss things in a basket than it is to expect a non-detailed person to stop and put something away, open a lid. There's no lids in these shared spaces. We have to make it simple.

Laurie:

Yeah. So thinking about that then, when we have children and we look in their rooms or their bathrooms. I'll speak for myself. So I'll say, look in one of my children's rooms, and I'm thinking to myself, "Oh, I just... Why won't they put that away?" Or, "It's a little messy.".

Cass:

I know.

Laurie:

Is this just part of allowing them to have their spaces?

Cass:

Well, not necessarily. So here's the thing, it's all about the organizing style. And almost all children are what I call a butterfly, which means they're really, really visual and they need fast, easy, simple solutions. So visual means it's out of sight, out of mind. So visual organizers will subconsciously leave things out. They'll subconsciously leave their closet doors open, dresser drawers open, their favorite things out on surfaces because they're afraid if they put it out of sight, they'll forget about it.

And so we have to have really visual systems to catch that clutter that aren't piles on the floor or a big pile on top of the dresser or your desk. And so what I always recommend is ditching the dresser, first and foremost. Do not have a dresser in a little kid's room. Dressers do not work. Go with a big cube Kallax shelving, like you see behind me, and use the bottom with bins for clothing and then the top is open display space. So they can have their Lego or their knickknacks or their toys or their little piles, they can have a place to put that isn't clutter on the floor, but that's really, really visual.

Laurie:

I love that you call them butterflies or they have butterfly style. That just sounds so cute to me.

Cass:

Yeah, it's empowering. And I chose the butterfly to represent this style because when you think of a butterfly in nature, they kind of flutter from flower to flower. They're not really structured. They don't do it in a detailed way, but they're attracted to the most vibrant visual, beautiful flowers. And this is really the same as a butterfly organizer. They need a laid back, less organized approach. It's okay if they don't fold their pajamas as long as it's all in the pajama bin, but they still want to see their most important everyday things.

Laurie:

Yeah. Oh, it's so sweet. I want to see my most important everyday things too all the time. I like this.

Cass:

Yeah.

Laurie:

I'm a ladybug though, so I'm not a butterfly. Maybe I was at one point and I'm thinking-

Cass:

You probably were. All little kids are.

Laurie:

Yeah, all of the kids are.

Cass:

But ladybugs get a little bit stressed. I don't know. Do you get anxious seeing clutter so you just tend to swipe it into a drawer to hide it?

Laurie:

I do.

Cass:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laurie:

I don't like seeing it, yeah.

Cass:

Yeah, me too.

Laurie:

But if it's in a drawer, then I don't see it.

Cass:

Right. Same. So yeah, that's my organizing style too. So I had to really create systems in drawers with lots of drawer divides so I could still hide it and toss it. But it goes into its subdivided little home.

Laurie:

I love it.

Cass:

So it stays tidy.

Laurie:

Cass, you have such wonderful ideas. You make it all seem so palatable. I love this.

Cass:

Thank you.

Laurie:

Now, let me ask you a question. Okay, so as we're going into the new year, I know that you said that four times a year you do a decluttering. One time being around the holidays, around this time of year. Are you going to be doing anything differently as you move forward? Any new systems?

Cass:

I mean, I feel like I've got my systems pretty nailed when it comes to my home. Your house is really the foundation for your whole life. So first step was getting it decluttered and organized. Then I was like, "Oh, I'm going to do little daily habits to keep it that way. Then I'm going to work on my finances and becoming debt free and having financial security. Then I'm going to work on growing a business." Because all of these things, every time you have your house under control, it frees up space to do more things. So now for me, it's all about my health. This is my new focus. And so I'm taking the same approach with what can I do every day for 15 minutes? What small thing can I do? I'm going to be meal planning more and preparing healthy foods and snacks ahead of time so they're easy to quick and grab. And really that's my focus for the new year. But if you're listening to this and you have no idea where to start, you're like, "I want to focus somewhere." start in the bedroom.

Laurie:

Okay.

Cass:

Specifically, start in your closet because this is the most empowering thing that you can do, and it will have the biggest shift on your mindset and your self-respect and your self-love. And once you've done this, every morning is easier. Every night before you go to bed, that's the last thing you see is your bedroom and it's the first thing you see in the morning. And so when we can focus on this space, it has a shift that affects every other area of our home.

Laurie:

It's so interesting you're saying that because I was talking to someone, maybe it was a feng shui, expert, and they were saying that often our bedrooms get the least of our attention. It's like the last place, whether we judge it or organize it, because we're thinking about the kitchen or we're thinking about other places. And this feng shui person also said, it is the most important place of the home, as you're saying, but we often don't think that.

Cass:

We really don't.

Laurie:

So I love that you're tying all of this together as well as someone just saying the energy of the home with feng shui. Also, what you're saying is about energy for ourselves and for our home. So everyone listening, go to your bedroom. I love this as an actionable step in the new year, starting with that closet.

Cass:

And I have a really easy tip, a really easy tip to help you declutter in your bedroom because there are people who love the Marie Kondo method. I do not recommend taking all of your clothes out. It's a lot of work. It's just like, now you've trashed your bedroom and you've made a big disaster.

So here's what you do. You start with one thing, take it out on the hanger. You have to remove it from the space. You do, you have to look at one piece of clothing and ask yourself, "Does this fit me? Do I love this? Would I buy this again?" And if the answer is no, it goes. If the answer is yes, we put it back in the closet, but we turn the hanger backwards. And this does two things. Now when we go back in, we can know where we stop. So say you're tired after 15 minutes, you can come back at it again tomorrow or next week and you know any hanger that hasn't been turned back, I haven't made a decision on. The second thing that that does is six months from now, any hanger that hasn't been turned back, you know you're not wearing and you can just let it go.

Laurie:

Yeah.

Cass:

But this is so empowering because especially my weight fluctuates a lot, and I found that when I would go in my closet in the morning and I would pull out an article of clothing and it was too small or I didn't like. It showed my muffin top or I felt bad about myself in it. I was allowing that shirt or those pants to call me fat, to call me ugly, to shame me. And that's the first thing I felt in the morning when I went to get ready, I'd open up my closet and I'd feel horrible about myself. And that stayed with me all day, whether I realized it or not. This is a subconscious thing.

Clothing in your closet that doesn't make you feel good is toxic. And if you can remove that, you don't even have to necessarily get rid of it. If you're like, "I want to lose weight again." Vacuum seal it and stick it under your bed or in storage, but it cannot stay in your closet.

Laurie:

I love this.

Cass:

Because you deserve better.

Laurie:

Yeah.

Cass:

And every morning that you wake up and you're not bombarded by clothing that makes you feel like crap, it means you can find clothes that make you feel great. Yeah. It's easy to find that same feeling of, ah, good, positivity, self-love. It lasts with you all day long and I promise you, it changes your life. This small thing that you can do changes your life.

Laurie:

So good, Cass. I love this. I love this. Because you are not alone saying that you've opened up your closet and had those feelings where we let our clothes, as you say, bully us, you said before. I mean... So this is such a good tip. I also love that you said, "Is this something I would buy right now?"

Cass:

Maybe not.

Laurie:

Yeah, this is great and very manageable as opposed to bringing everything out, as you said, and then just being stuck with a whole pile of clothes that you have to go through. I have just two more questions for you. What are your favorite ways to make your home feel happy? Like a magical place for you to be in?

Cass:

I love hugging my home. I don't know what else to call it, but like I decorate for the seasons and it is an overkill. But I do little things to just refresh in a space, whether it's making a new little centerpiece or a wreath or I don't know, just even rearranging furniture. These acts of love make me love my home more, if this makes sense. So anytime I can do a small DIY, even if it's painting lamps with spray paint, I have so much pride in my house. Even if it isn't perfect, my house is not even close to perfect. It's a small thing that I can do. I call it hugging my home because when you hug your home, it hugs you right back.

Laurie:

Very sweet. I love that. And then my last question to you is, so our podcast is called Being Home with Hunker. What does being home mean to you?

Cass:

Ah, it's a respite from the world and being home just feels safe to me. I'm a homebody and I don't love leaving, but what I found was... I lived in New York for six months and I took my family with me and I still felt at home even though I wasn't at home because I had the things that mattered the most. Obviously, I had my kids, but I also brought with me the things that were most special. So for me, it's just that retreat from the big, scary world.

Laurie:

That's beautiful. Thank you so much, Cass. It's been so lovely speaking with you.

Cass:

Thank you so much for having me.

Laurie:

Yeah, you're a wealth of information and inspiration, which I love that kind of combo because I'm all about the why and the emotion behind why we do things, especially in the spaces that are most personal for us. So thank you so much for taking the time with me.

Cass:

It was my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Laurie:

Thank you.

To learn more about Cass, visit her website clutterbug.me, where you can discover her courses, books, podcast, printables, and more. Or find her on Instagram, @clutterbug_me. Also, on our show notes, you can discover other episodes we think you might like, such as my chat with feng shui expert, Amanda Gibby Peters.

Thank you for listening to Being Home with Hunker. For more information about this episode or others, visit hunker.com/podcast. And if you don't already, please follow our show. If you like what you hear, be sure to give us a five-star rating and review and share with your friends. It really does help.

Being Home with Hunker is produced by me, Laurie Gunning Grossman. Eve Epstein is our executive producer. The podcast is recorded and mixed at Night Shift Audio. Theme music by Jonathan Grossman. Special thanks to our team at Hunker, Senior Designer Mory Men, and director of Audience Development Gina Goff. Hunker's mission is to inspire and empower you to create a space that expresses who you are, shows off your unique style, and makes your life happier and more productive.

Okay. Hi, I'm Laurie. [inaudible 00:33:31] hi.

About the Podcast

Being Home With Hunkeris a new podcast where we explore the idea of "home" – not just as a place where you live, but as an expression of your identity. Each week we talk with designers, creatives, and artists about who they are, how they create meaningful spaces, and what "being home" means to them.

If you like what you hear, please rate and review the podcast, hit subscribe/follow, and share with a friend. When it comes to podcasts word of mouth is how most people will find the show. It really does help. VisitHunker.com/podcastwhere you can find, follow, and listen to our show.

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